Chat Moderator: Question 5: Do you think Nintendo has cut back on the amount of effort it puts into the total Zelda" Package - for example, the ALttP on SNES manual had so much artwork and information, as did the guide. A lot of little things were treated with care. Yet, now it seems like a simple formula rehashed over and over, and Nintendo cuts corners.
Archaic Sage: Yes. In a word. All of the new manuals and players guides and things do seem to be rather lacklustre. There is far less storyline in these booklets, and the artwork is sub-par. Majora's Mask in the UK was good, Ocarina of Time was poor. Not to mention The Wind Waker, it was all a little... rushed. In The Legend of Zelda, the manual had all of the monsters listed, with their own artwork with it. Do we see that anymore? Nope. We do see the occasional, bigger monster, but that's only online from someone else's hard scanning work. In addition to this, in England, the manuals for the Portable games are always in black and white. I blame NoE for a poor job on things like this, at least in England. It sucks and they really need to put effort into it.
GoddessRinoa: It's hard to compare these games with LttP. After the big stink that AoL was (in my opinion), Nintendo had to come back from it, and threw EVERYTHING they had into LttP. I still enjoy the recent games, but they indeed are lacking in effort when compared to LttP, because Nintendo wasn't coming back from a bombed game.
Jack: We need more easter eggs that would provide fodder for a hundred exploratory articles. As it is, I'm still scraping the bottom of the barrell with what I can find in the more recent games.
JC: I'd really love to see some pretty accurate, correctly translated stories in there. We all remember what happened with the Alttp SNES Manual. A Total mess. It Can't be trusted. I don't really look for art, personally. If I see art, I always link it back to the constant thought in my head: "How does it effect the timeline." Personally, the manuals should focus on the stories a bit more. But, this doesn't mean Nintendo is taking easy way outs. Manuals are often made 6 months before release so they can be manfactured. That's during the dreaded Crunch time. You really can't blame them sometimes. If you get what's needed to be conveyed in the Booklet, you shouldn't have a problem with it. That's why we PLAY and EXPERIENCE Zelda games: for the meaning of adventure.
Scott: "Cutting Corners" when it comes to manuals and the like is not unique to Nintendo. Every game company, for nearly every game does it. It's not really all that bad of a thing, if you really think about it. Sure, we don't have all those pretty manuals with all kinds of pictures. But think about why they were there in the first place. In the old games, all you saw were the little sprites, which left quite a lot to imagination. Detail of story and things were fairly sparce in-game across the board. So, the manuals and things were there to show more of what everything was. But now, you can see it in the game, and don't need all that other jazz to understand. And, of course, they haven't done what SEGA did in the latter days of the Genesis: Stop making nice plastic boxes for the games, and use cardboard cutouts. As for the games themselves, no, Nintendo is not doing less work than before. Far more, in fact. It's just that the same amount of work equates to less game these days, and that's all people see.
Leinator: hm...to tell you the truth, I don't really care. In my opinion all the games have been quite good, and to me the guides don't really matter. yes, we all enjoyed the cool artwork, and I have to admit, even the LA guide had more stuff than the ones today have, but as long as the games are good, should we really care?
Link of Hyrule: Yes I would definatly like to see more care taken over elements of the Zelda franchise like making the manuals more detailed, giving more history background, more maps and developing storyline's of each character's background. But not at the expense of the actual game obviously. But yup definatly I would like to see the franchise expanded upon in this kind of way. Is Ninty cutting corners? Well looking at how long Twilight Princess has been in development for my answer to that would have to be a simple NO! Or at least I hope so!
lord-of-shadow: I too have lamented about the loss of quality in manuals and game guides. I used to sit down and read and reread LA, LTTP, and OoT manuals. I loved looking at the pictures, loved reading the stories. I would sit down and drawn the items from the item pages, etc., etc. I was a crazy little obsessed kid, in other words. And the game guides! So much art, so much background, so much of interest! Where has it all gone? Guides and manuals today suck compared to the old ones. But… I don’t mind much. Do you know why? Today, all the detail and art that went into those things is made up elsewhere. For world details, the games themselves are much more fleshed out. Art? They release tons more official art these days. Look at The Wind Waker, or the Minish Cap. So much art… The only real problem is that we now have it all in one style. Before, you’d have official art, and then game guide art, which was clearly done in a different style. Now it’s all the same. Oh, and the artwork in general needs more variety. I don’t need to see images of Link and Ezlo in five hundred million different poses. I want scenery, other characters, backdrops, scenes, interesting stuff that I can make wallpapers out of.
In terms of effort on the games themselves? If you look at the main games, I don’t think it’s really gone down at all. If you look at spinoff or less important games, like Four Swords, the MInish Cap, and probably the Phantom Hourglass… there is definitely a lot less work, time, and care put into them. Back to the manuals, I kinda miss the archaic language of the style used in A Link to the Past’s backstory and info. They may have not done a particularly great job with the translation, but in the end, I think the manual and game were better for it. They wording and info that the American translators used greatly added to my enjoyment of the game. Wise Men? Awesome. That creation story in LttP backstory? Beautiful. The extra tidbits of info about the book of Mudora, prophecies, etc? I don’t give a damn about the inconsistencies, the game was better for it.
Lysia: When Aonuma admitted that the ending of WW - gathering the Triforce pieces - was rushed, I was kind of shocked. Shocked, but not surprised, because while I enjoyed the game, I found it too short. It seemed repetitive in some parts too; I felt as though I was always fighting the same enemies over and over. So yes, I do feel that Nintendo have rushed some things more recently - in comparison with some of the Zelda games. And don't get me started on the instruction manuals! A beautifully illustrated manual, packed with information, is one of my favourite things, it just seems to add to the quality and world of the game. Now it seems that the manuals just follow a 'cookie-cutter' format.
MNgoldenEagle: Hrmm.... well, here's one thing to take into consideration: production costs. LTTP was a sprite-based game using an engine Nintendo's been working with for ages. OOT used a completely redesigned engine, was their first 3-D modeled Zelda game, and took about four years to finish. It was also one of the first games released in a 256-MBit cartridge, which is more expensive. So if they had to cut corners, there was definitely a reason for it. The costs to produce all the material haven't gotten any cheaper, either, and we all saw that E3 video with the intricate setup. That was incredible. Obviously they have to prioritize their funding, and I'd rather see the game get the funding than the instruction manual. Not to mention the fact that the game can convey more of the story now, so having it in the manual isn't as important anymore.
Nathan: Well it's the easy way out and people still buy the games> What can we really exspect. We buy mario rehash's over and over, so it proves my point. With Zelda games, they can cut back because it's such a great franchise that the formula works. I am looking forward to Zelda of the Revolution more so then TP honestly, because it will break the lazy mold and cutting corners idea. The manuals need more info, but honestly I don't read them.
The Real Link: Yes, but if that is Nintendo 2019s weakness I am cool with it. Their greatest strength, making games more then makes up for that.
GoddessRinoa: I just wanted to re-enforce my point about Nintendo coming back from a problematic game. Whatever your personal opinion of AoL, it wasn't well received by the public in general, and that's what they had to come back from. Wind Waker, though a good game overall, was extremely controversial and they made a lot of mistakes in its development, and now they're coming back from THAT with TP. Will TP be another LttP? We shall see.
Captain Cornflake: When half the time, you get games used, without cases and instruction manuals (or from publishers who send you a crude PS2 disc with a super basic label in a paper sleeve) you don't really care about instruction manuals and fancy box art. That's all I really have to say about that. Next.
Jack: I'd like to see TP come out with something like the deluxe "Guide to Tamriel" that came with the limited edition Oblivion package.A packed "guide to hyrule" with descriptions of the history, races, characters, etc. leading up to the events of Twilight Princess. It'd dwarf aLttP's manual and provide great reading material. But in the end, we're not playing the manual, we're playing the game. So I'd prefer more time be spent on the latter even if it's at the expense of the former.
Archaic Sage: On Nintendo cutting corners in the game on the whole, then yes, I'd have to say that they are. There is no real merchandise in the UK for Zelda, there is next to no promotions to win the games and I can't remember the last time I saw an Advertisment for Zelda. Nintendo, just seem to cut corners in England all the time. It depresses me, as Europe is a huge market for them to utilise on the whole. Yet, it's ignored.
Link of Hyrule: Yes I totally agree that Europe as a market has been overlooked by Nintendo for way to long, as a resident of the UK we have almost no merchandise Zelda or Nintendo related. I hope that TP remadies this problem!
Lysia: Nintendo Australia are even worse. Wind Waker came and went with barely a whisper, and merchandise? You've got to be kidding!
Chat Moderator: Alright, Question 6. Taking into account the current trend of Zelda games and Nintendo's current position in the market, where do all of you see the Zelda series in ten years time, and what type of Zelda games will we be playing?
Leinator: In short, fun ones. I don't see nintendo seriously changing the forumlae too much, but I'm sure the revolution will grant us quite a few new features to play with. Again, I don't see the game changing in a HUGE way, but as Anouma stated, after TP the series will change, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Link of Hyrule: I personally think that if Ninty know what is best for them they will not edit the formula of the Zelda series much, a little addition from each game to game is the way to go and what they have always done. I am however extremely worried about the new Rev controller and hope that its application doesnt mess up the zelda series
lord-of-shadow: I have always found that predicting the future of Zelda is a mistake. Nobody predicted THe Wind Waker. Nobody predicted Majora's Mask. Nobody predicted Twilight Princess. I will simply sit back, and watch, and see.
Lysia: That will depend on how much (if any) Nintendo plan to change for Zelda Revolution with their mysterious, "TP will be the last Zelda game as we know it" comment. I don't think we'll be rehashing the same formula over and over by then. In 10 years' time, Zelda will be 30 years old! It might be a bit stale by then. I would like to see Nintendo keep all of the things we love about Zelda, but keeping the series fresh at the same time.
MNgoldenEagle: I think Nintendo will be able to survive with the Revolution (won't go into that one), but their financial status might be questionable. I think they'll always devote as much money as they can to Mario and Zelda, but by then it might be too little. We'll have to show support to Nintendo still if we want to see the Zelda franchise weather any storm Nintendo goes through, because otherwise our beloved series might end up in the hands of, say, Microsoft. And I'd prefer Nintendo over that monopolistic monstrosity any day.
Nathan: I think Zelda will be inthe top 3 games across the board in 5 years time. The revolution, to me, is looking like the bright spot of the future and Everyone agrees that Zelda on teh revolution will be truly spectacular. Honestly, Zelda is the one constant that keeps non-nintendo fans still turn there heads and applaud.
The Real Link: Very good question, I expect we will see at least three new console games other then Twilight Princess that will do very well on the Revolution and a possible new system. Other then that they will be Zelda and who knows. It is anyone 2019s guess where the series goes from here.
TSA: Virtual Hyrule. I hope we get a VR Hyrule in 10 years. So I can go and live there.
Chat Moderator: haha
TSA: And then I can get a sword... and beat away n00bs. But I probably won't be as good there as I am with the games
Archaic Sage: Who knows what sort of Zelda games we'll be playing in five years time? Who knew that Ocarina of Time would be the way it is when A Link to the Past came out? In two generations time, we don't know what we'll be playing, for all we know we may be in a virtual reality playing Zelda and attacking anything. Hopefully, the formula would have changed a little. I don't want to see Ganondorf being taken out, but I know I don't want the same stories, over and over again to be shown, every five years. Majora's Mask was a nice change of the norm, as was The Wind Waker. However, we do need epics like Ocarina of Time every now and again. I'd like to see some major changes, but in ten years time, I'd hope to still see the same Zelda magic that we're getting at the moment and have been for twenty years.
Captain Cornflake: To add on to what TSA said, I'd much rather a VR Halo, but that's my opinion...
F3: In five years Zelda will be a holographic game with virtual reality gloves, online MMO support, 28.1 channel surround sound, and particle glow effects that cause permanent blindness. Link will travel by means of a jet pack, tote a .50 caliber LMG, and use night vision instead of the Lens of Truth. Ranches will be replaced with used Hummer dealerships, Kakariko will become a sleepy, iPod-wearing residential area, and the Market will become a dark, film noire city ruled by violent, armed gangs of Dekus. The Zoras will move to New Orleans.
GoddessRinoa: I can't even begin to imagine the advancements Zelda will make in the next decade. I mean, just think about the advancements that have been made in this past decade. Who knows what'll be possible by then? Virtual reality? The very mention of a virtual reality Hyrule puts me into rabid fangirl mode. That's a pretty high expectation, though, I admit. Dare to dream. I'm very intrigued by the "TP will be the last Zelda as we know it" comment. What does that mean, exactly? The possibilities are endless.
Jack: Over the next decade, Nintendo will keep integrating the motor functions of the player into the game. Today we're just swinging the sword. Tomorrow, wearing the hat. After that: who knows?
JC: It's really hard to say where Zelda is going to be in 10 years. Zelda is a compatible game. There could be alot of themes with it and alot of different ways it can be played. I'm leaving it up to Nintendo to decide what they are going to be doing with it in 10 years.
With the release of the Revolution coming up, I'm sure we'll be playing Zelda games in a completely different style. Even Miyamoto (I think...or Aonuma) has said that Twilight Princess will be the last Zelda game of it's kind, before it begins to head down a new road. There's no telling what that means, though. Does that include different storyline, different gameplay, or whatever in 5 years, which will probably have seen the release of a few more consoles, other than the Revolution, I think we'll still be sitting down to play the latest Zelda game, and enjoying it, no matter how different it is than Ocarina of Time, or Twilight Princess for that matter.
Scott: I'd love a Virtual Hyrule, TSA... And a virtual Halo... but that's not the topic of debate. And F3, you forgot the Gorons dealing rock.
Scott: Ten years should be enough time to give us a few more games on the major console (Revolution, or whatever else may crop up in that time), and lord only knows how many for DS and things. I doubt very much that Zelda will delve into The Real Linkm of Mario, just because people will not react very kindly to "Zelda Party" released along with "Mario Part 2883" (and that's not meant to be a year). At the 30 year point of Zelda, there very well may be a shift in the gameplay mechanics. At the same time, there might not. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And although it's not exactly relating to the question, GoldenEagle mentioned something about Microsoft... a thing to note about Nintendo as compared to its competitors is that (discounting the other divisions of the companies) Nintendo is far, far more profitable than Microsoft's Xbox division and all its game companies, AND sony's version. Nintendo's not on its death bed, and I doubt it will be for many years.
Chat Moderator: Question 7: What are the benefits of moving Twilight Princess to the Revolution, keeping it on GCN-only, or having it cross-system?
TSA: Keeping it on GCN - pleasing a few core fans, but cutting off new customers. Putting it exclusively on Revolutions forces everyone to buy Rev for the game, which will convert a LOT of people to Revolution, many who just like Zelda. So keeping it on GCN = please fans. Keeping it on Rev = sales and pleasing Nintendo
Chat Moderator: so why not both?
TSA: The both system option is supposedly win/win, but it will come off as gimmicky. I am not a fan of that. XBOX360 did that with too many games at launch. 12Games that came out on XBOX360 as "suped up" versions. I want it either on GCN, or on Revolution.
Archaic Sage: I'm really against the idea of Twilight Princess being on the Revolution, alone. Nintendo have promised too many times that it's going to be on the Gamecube. Otherwise, I feel that we'd be able to trust Nintendo even less than we can at the moment; which isn't much in my opinion! Twilight Princess staing on the Gamecube is a great idea. It's not pleasing core fans, it's pleasing everyone as the old Gamecube games can still be played on the Revolution. However, having extra features for the Revolution that aren't available on the Gamecube, like dungeons and Controller features, it'll make us people typing and reading here want a Rev twice a much, as we'll want to play every feature. Thus forcing everyone to buy the Revolution. After all, we're all going to want to get the Rev at some point for some game or another, so over all, if they keep it on the GC, but have extra features, they're keeping their promises.
Captain Cornflake: Economically, it's a good decision to have it compatable on both. There's always going to be the fanboys who will suck up any new 'feature,' regardless of how gimmicky it turns out.
Jack: If TP and Rev don't debut around the holidays, then the game coming out only for Rev will hurt the former's sales. Not many will have the means just to buy a new system out of the blue for one game, unless they were already saving for it. There's a happy medium with a TP with "gimmicks" for Rev, because it can push sales for Rev without requiring the purchase of a new system. No one is turned off and it creates incentives for the new system.
Scott: At this point in the game, unless Nintendo has secretly been preparing it for a long while and just never told anyone, it would probably not be the best course of action for them to put it on the Revolution. Keeping it on Gamecube does, because of backward-compatability, essentially make it a Revolution title too, though. There will be, as has been said, "added features" for playing it on the Revolution, much like the Oracle games had for playing them on the GBA, so it wouldn't be blocking sales to Revolution owners. Because of the backward compatability, it would be fairly pointless to release it separately for the Gamecube and the Revolution, as that'd be putting two of the same game on the Revolution, and that's bad business.
Link of Hyrule: This whole question of Gamecube vs rev is really to be quite honest getting on my nerves. I lost a lot of respect for Nintendo, their news system and above all Reggie over the rumours flying around the internet and radio to do with this issue. I personally think that TP should be released on the GameCube and that they should be working their socks off on a new Rev only Zelda game and utilise its features fully for the new game... Simple as that really
Lysia: Moving TP to the Revolution will upset a lot of fans, especially after Nintendo has kept reassuring us that it will be on GC. Moving it to the Rev might boost console sales, but it might limit the number of game sales, as the fans who have put money aside for the game now have to be able to afford a new console. Also, since it was designed for the GC, changing it over to Rev-only would mean that the game isn't using the full potential of the console. Having the game playable on both consoles pleases everyone. A few little goodies in the Rev version might encourage fans to buy the Rev, but I think it should be entirely playable on GC.
MNgoldenEagle: REV- More possibilities for graphics and detail, and a unique controller format and online playability (possible). Downside is that people who had reserved it thinking it would be a GC title might be miffed that their reservation has an extra $150 price tag on it.
MNgoldenEagle: GCN- Follows through on their word, but will be automatically an outdated game that lacks the punch we're seeing in other systems. If we don't look at graphics, however, it'll still be an excellent game. Downside is less graphics, no chance for online connectivity (who uses the broadband adapter anyway?), and no innovative controller design, but overall still a great game.
MNgoldenEagle: REV+GCN- A win/win in most cases, but this would mean that REV features would be limited and the game would still not have as great of graphics as it could. Plus if the REV uses larger discs for its own games, they might have to remove content to make it all fit.
Captain Cornflake: It could always span multiple discs, MN
The Real Link: Zelda sells and having it on the Revolution would help boost the sells at first. Having is on both systems allows it to still sell on the Revolution, but would also help the Nintendo fans without the money to go and buy the Revolution. It is just a matter of what they want to do. I am sure if it is on Revolution only the people that do not buy the Revolution right away will still buy it when they do buy the Revolution.
Nathan: I think it should stay GCN. They have advertised it for GCN for too long, and you know what, thats what it should be. It was not originaly designed for the revolution and I do not want it to be so. It's a GCN game, and i hope thats the way it stays. I'de love to swing a sword, but thats "next" generation, TP is still a "this" generation game.
Dabombster:< While having it on both systems will be cool in its own way, I do believe overall that it is a gimmick. The only special difference I can think of for having it on the Rev, will be the ability to use the controller as a sword. But that way, you may end up 201caccidentally 201d whacking your siblings in the face
JC: I personally see no difference whether it's on the Revolution or GCN. I just want the game. If it's on Rev, you'll just get different controls. I'm not sure about it getting new features. Who cares what system it is on? Just take the game for what it is. It's still Zelda.
Chat Moderator: Okay, Question 8: What do you expect out of E3 in terms of Zelda?
Chat Moderator: This will be the first e3 i'm gonna be attending. I am psyched. Its already been said that there will be 3 zelda games on the show floor of e3 this year. Obviously we have Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass... we can only speculate that Revolution is the third entity, but we don't know for sure. I fully expect at the minimum another trailer and demo of Twilight Princess, and at least a trailer each for Phantom Hourglass and whatever the third entity may be. Lets hope they dont keep us in the dark
Archaic Sage: I'd hope to see a release date for Twilight Princess, and a few more videos and pieces of official art. Nothing else from Twilight Princess though. What I'd like to also see is stuff from Phantom Hourglass, some solid facts on a bit of storyline, and some official art. Maybe a demo of the game for the simple idea of playing Zelda with the stylus. I'd also like to see some information on Tingle RPG, and if it's actually going to be released, furthermore I'd also like to hear some more on Zelda Revolution. The idea of a free-hand stylus is a great idea, and Zelda could utilise it really well. However, not much else would really float my boat. I don't like to be told everything. I'd much rather some concerte storylines and characters being told rather than another: "OMFG WOT A AWSUM TRAILOR".
Captain Cornflake: Phantom Hourglass is going to draw some attention, definitely. I'm sure a lot of people are interested in that. I'm just hoping that the extra "Touchscreen Features" that get unvieled aren't crap like "Sharpen Link's sword on the touchscreen!" Of course, we're going to get standard fare, like new screenshots and trailers and the like. But I can't help but feel like there's another big thing that hasn't been announced yet.
Jack: (1) A release date for TP, and maybe PH, (2) Confirmation Tingle RPG was cancelled (because it better be!), (3) a new movie or four of TP/PH, (4) Inkling about Zelda Revolution, (5) and a few score screenshots of either.
JC: I can't tell what's going to go down at E3. I say whatever happens happens. I can only hope for so much. Any info on Zelda is good enough for me.
Link of Hyrule: From E3 I would like to see a new trailer for both Twilight Princess and also for Phantom Hourglass and also if possible a detailed map of some kind of the Twilight Princess overworld and Twilight Realm. And above all I WANT A WORLDWIDE RELEASE DATE FOR TWILIGHT PRINCESS TO BE ANNOUNCED! Is that really asking too much Ninty!?!
Lysia: I am expecting the TP release date! I'm sure there will be other TP info as well, including a demo, but it won't be the star it was last year. Instead, it will share the spotlight with Phantom Hourglass, which I'm definitely hoping for more information on. And hopefully we'll hear something about Zelda Revolution too.
MNgoldenEagle: Hmm... lots of money spent on the display. Moreso than last time, for obvious reasons. It will probably feature Phantom Hourglass and possibly Tingle RPG (are they still making that?), as well as Twilight Princess. Being the last E3 before TP's release, they'll likely have a game demo and a lot more information, which should be exciting. Possibly their last trailer release as well. I'm not too interested in the PH and TRPG games yet, as I still lack a DS, but I'm sure they'll want to focus on them quite a bit in the floor show.
Nathan: Most likely yet another TP trailer with some more demo's, as well as a influx of information on PH and potentionaly a brief mention of plans for Zelda on the revo. Also a confirmation of a TP release date and/or wether it is being held back for the revolution or not.
The Real Link: We should see more of Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. I also hope we get release dates on both of them. I doubt we will here much if anything of a Revolution Zelda, but then again who could have predicted what happened at E3 2004?
TSA: I expect at the press conference to see a new Twilight Princess Trailer and a new Phantom Hourglass trailer/footage. I also expect see a glimpse of Zelda Revolution...even it is a teaser. At the show - TP/PH playable. At the roundtable - storyline details on TP/PH. Oh yeah, and during some point - release dates. (That's the E3 Roundtable not ours.)
Archaic Sage: Yes. In a word. All of the new manuals and players guides and things do seem to be rather lacklustre. There is far less storyline in these booklets, and the artwork is sub-par. Majora's Mask in the UK was good, Ocarina of Time was poor. Not to mention The Wind Waker, it was all a little... rushed. In The Legend of Zelda, the manual had all of the monsters listed, with their own artwork with it. Do we see that anymore? Nope. We do see the occasional, bigger monster, but that's only online from someone else's hard scanning work. In addition to this, in England, the manuals for the Portable games are always in black and white. I blame NoE for a poor job on things like this, at least in England. It sucks and they really need to put effort into it.
GoddessRinoa: It's hard to compare these games with LttP. After the big stink that AoL was (in my opinion), Nintendo had to come back from it, and threw EVERYTHING they had into LttP. I still enjoy the recent games, but they indeed are lacking in effort when compared to LttP, because Nintendo wasn't coming back from a bombed game.
Jack: We need more easter eggs that would provide fodder for a hundred exploratory articles. As it is, I'm still scraping the bottom of the barrell with what I can find in the more recent games.
JC: I'd really love to see some pretty accurate, correctly translated stories in there. We all remember what happened with the Alttp SNES Manual. A Total mess. It Can't be trusted. I don't really look for art, personally. If I see art, I always link it back to the constant thought in my head: "How does it effect the timeline." Personally, the manuals should focus on the stories a bit more. But, this doesn't mean Nintendo is taking easy way outs. Manuals are often made 6 months before release so they can be manfactured. That's during the dreaded Crunch time. You really can't blame them sometimes. If you get what's needed to be conveyed in the Booklet, you shouldn't have a problem with it. That's why we PLAY and EXPERIENCE Zelda games: for the meaning of adventure.
Scott: "Cutting Corners" when it comes to manuals and the like is not unique to Nintendo. Every game company, for nearly every game does it. It's not really all that bad of a thing, if you really think about it. Sure, we don't have all those pretty manuals with all kinds of pictures. But think about why they were there in the first place. In the old games, all you saw were the little sprites, which left quite a lot to imagination. Detail of story and things were fairly sparce in-game across the board. So, the manuals and things were there to show more of what everything was. But now, you can see it in the game, and don't need all that other jazz to understand. And, of course, they haven't done what SEGA did in the latter days of the Genesis: Stop making nice plastic boxes for the games, and use cardboard cutouts. As for the games themselves, no, Nintendo is not doing less work than before. Far more, in fact. It's just that the same amount of work equates to less game these days, and that's all people see.
Leinator: hm...to tell you the truth, I don't really care. In my opinion all the games have been quite good, and to me the guides don't really matter. yes, we all enjoyed the cool artwork, and I have to admit, even the LA guide had more stuff than the ones today have, but as long as the games are good, should we really care?
Link of Hyrule: Yes I would definatly like to see more care taken over elements of the Zelda franchise like making the manuals more detailed, giving more history background, more maps and developing storyline's of each character's background. But not at the expense of the actual game obviously. But yup definatly I would like to see the franchise expanded upon in this kind of way. Is Ninty cutting corners? Well looking at how long Twilight Princess has been in development for my answer to that would have to be a simple NO! Or at least I hope so!
lord-of-shadow: I too have lamented about the loss of quality in manuals and game guides. I used to sit down and read and reread LA, LTTP, and OoT manuals. I loved looking at the pictures, loved reading the stories. I would sit down and drawn the items from the item pages, etc., etc. I was a crazy little obsessed kid, in other words. And the game guides! So much art, so much background, so much of interest! Where has it all gone? Guides and manuals today suck compared to the old ones. But… I don’t mind much. Do you know why? Today, all the detail and art that went into those things is made up elsewhere. For world details, the games themselves are much more fleshed out. Art? They release tons more official art these days. Look at The Wind Waker, or the Minish Cap. So much art… The only real problem is that we now have it all in one style. Before, you’d have official art, and then game guide art, which was clearly done in a different style. Now it’s all the same. Oh, and the artwork in general needs more variety. I don’t need to see images of Link and Ezlo in five hundred million different poses. I want scenery, other characters, backdrops, scenes, interesting stuff that I can make wallpapers out of.
In terms of effort on the games themselves? If you look at the main games, I don’t think it’s really gone down at all. If you look at spinoff or less important games, like Four Swords, the MInish Cap, and probably the Phantom Hourglass… there is definitely a lot less work, time, and care put into them. Back to the manuals, I kinda miss the archaic language of the style used in A Link to the Past’s backstory and info. They may have not done a particularly great job with the translation, but in the end, I think the manual and game were better for it. They wording and info that the American translators used greatly added to my enjoyment of the game. Wise Men? Awesome. That creation story in LttP backstory? Beautiful. The extra tidbits of info about the book of Mudora, prophecies, etc? I don’t give a damn about the inconsistencies, the game was better for it.
Lysia: When Aonuma admitted that the ending of WW - gathering the Triforce pieces - was rushed, I was kind of shocked. Shocked, but not surprised, because while I enjoyed the game, I found it too short. It seemed repetitive in some parts too; I felt as though I was always fighting the same enemies over and over. So yes, I do feel that Nintendo have rushed some things more recently - in comparison with some of the Zelda games. And don't get me started on the instruction manuals! A beautifully illustrated manual, packed with information, is one of my favourite things, it just seems to add to the quality and world of the game. Now it seems that the manuals just follow a 'cookie-cutter' format.
MNgoldenEagle: Hrmm.... well, here's one thing to take into consideration: production costs. LTTP was a sprite-based game using an engine Nintendo's been working with for ages. OOT used a completely redesigned engine, was their first 3-D modeled Zelda game, and took about four years to finish. It was also one of the first games released in a 256-MBit cartridge, which is more expensive. So if they had to cut corners, there was definitely a reason for it. The costs to produce all the material haven't gotten any cheaper, either, and we all saw that E3 video with the intricate setup. That was incredible. Obviously they have to prioritize their funding, and I'd rather see the game get the funding than the instruction manual. Not to mention the fact that the game can convey more of the story now, so having it in the manual isn't as important anymore.
Nathan: Well it's the easy way out and people still buy the games> What can we really exspect. We buy mario rehash's over and over, so it proves my point. With Zelda games, they can cut back because it's such a great franchise that the formula works. I am looking forward to Zelda of the Revolution more so then TP honestly, because it will break the lazy mold and cutting corners idea. The manuals need more info, but honestly I don't read them.
The Real Link: Yes, but if that is Nintendo 2019s weakness I am cool with it. Their greatest strength, making games more then makes up for that.
GoddessRinoa: I just wanted to re-enforce my point about Nintendo coming back from a problematic game. Whatever your personal opinion of AoL, it wasn't well received by the public in general, and that's what they had to come back from. Wind Waker, though a good game overall, was extremely controversial and they made a lot of mistakes in its development, and now they're coming back from THAT with TP. Will TP be another LttP? We shall see.
Captain Cornflake: When half the time, you get games used, without cases and instruction manuals (or from publishers who send you a crude PS2 disc with a super basic label in a paper sleeve) you don't really care about instruction manuals and fancy box art. That's all I really have to say about that. Next.
Jack: I'd like to see TP come out with something like the deluxe "Guide to Tamriel" that came with the limited edition Oblivion package.A packed "guide to hyrule" with descriptions of the history, races, characters, etc. leading up to the events of Twilight Princess. It'd dwarf aLttP's manual and provide great reading material. But in the end, we're not playing the manual, we're playing the game. So I'd prefer more time be spent on the latter even if it's at the expense of the former.
Archaic Sage: On Nintendo cutting corners in the game on the whole, then yes, I'd have to say that they are. There is no real merchandise in the UK for Zelda, there is next to no promotions to win the games and I can't remember the last time I saw an Advertisment for Zelda. Nintendo, just seem to cut corners in England all the time. It depresses me, as Europe is a huge market for them to utilise on the whole. Yet, it's ignored.
Link of Hyrule: Yes I totally agree that Europe as a market has been overlooked by Nintendo for way to long, as a resident of the UK we have almost no merchandise Zelda or Nintendo related. I hope that TP remadies this problem!
Lysia: Nintendo Australia are even worse. Wind Waker came and went with barely a whisper, and merchandise? You've got to be kidding!
Chat Moderator: Alright, Question 6. Taking into account the current trend of Zelda games and Nintendo's current position in the market, where do all of you see the Zelda series in ten years time, and what type of Zelda games will we be playing?
Leinator: In short, fun ones. I don't see nintendo seriously changing the forumlae too much, but I'm sure the revolution will grant us quite a few new features to play with. Again, I don't see the game changing in a HUGE way, but as Anouma stated, after TP the series will change, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Link of Hyrule: I personally think that if Ninty know what is best for them they will not edit the formula of the Zelda series much, a little addition from each game to game is the way to go and what they have always done. I am however extremely worried about the new Rev controller and hope that its application doesnt mess up the zelda series
lord-of-shadow: I have always found that predicting the future of Zelda is a mistake. Nobody predicted THe Wind Waker. Nobody predicted Majora's Mask. Nobody predicted Twilight Princess. I will simply sit back, and watch, and see.
Lysia: That will depend on how much (if any) Nintendo plan to change for Zelda Revolution with their mysterious, "TP will be the last Zelda game as we know it" comment. I don't think we'll be rehashing the same formula over and over by then. In 10 years' time, Zelda will be 30 years old! It might be a bit stale by then. I would like to see Nintendo keep all of the things we love about Zelda, but keeping the series fresh at the same time.
MNgoldenEagle: I think Nintendo will be able to survive with the Revolution (won't go into that one), but their financial status might be questionable. I think they'll always devote as much money as they can to Mario and Zelda, but by then it might be too little. We'll have to show support to Nintendo still if we want to see the Zelda franchise weather any storm Nintendo goes through, because otherwise our beloved series might end up in the hands of, say, Microsoft. And I'd prefer Nintendo over that monopolistic monstrosity any day.
Nathan: I think Zelda will be inthe top 3 games across the board in 5 years time. The revolution, to me, is looking like the bright spot of the future and Everyone agrees that Zelda on teh revolution will be truly spectacular. Honestly, Zelda is the one constant that keeps non-nintendo fans still turn there heads and applaud.
The Real Link: Very good question, I expect we will see at least three new console games other then Twilight Princess that will do very well on the Revolution and a possible new system. Other then that they will be Zelda and who knows. It is anyone 2019s guess where the series goes from here.
TSA: Virtual Hyrule. I hope we get a VR Hyrule in 10 years. So I can go and live there.
Chat Moderator: haha
TSA: And then I can get a sword... and beat away n00bs. But I probably won't be as good there as I am with the games
Archaic Sage: Who knows what sort of Zelda games we'll be playing in five years time? Who knew that Ocarina of Time would be the way it is when A Link to the Past came out? In two generations time, we don't know what we'll be playing, for all we know we may be in a virtual reality playing Zelda and attacking anything. Hopefully, the formula would have changed a little. I don't want to see Ganondorf being taken out, but I know I don't want the same stories, over and over again to be shown, every five years. Majora's Mask was a nice change of the norm, as was The Wind Waker. However, we do need epics like Ocarina of Time every now and again. I'd like to see some major changes, but in ten years time, I'd hope to still see the same Zelda magic that we're getting at the moment and have been for twenty years.
Captain Cornflake: To add on to what TSA said, I'd much rather a VR Halo, but that's my opinion...
F3: In five years Zelda will be a holographic game with virtual reality gloves, online MMO support, 28.1 channel surround sound, and particle glow effects that cause permanent blindness. Link will travel by means of a jet pack, tote a .50 caliber LMG, and use night vision instead of the Lens of Truth. Ranches will be replaced with used Hummer dealerships, Kakariko will become a sleepy, iPod-wearing residential area, and the Market will become a dark, film noire city ruled by violent, armed gangs of Dekus. The Zoras will move to New Orleans.
GoddessRinoa: I can't even begin to imagine the advancements Zelda will make in the next decade. I mean, just think about the advancements that have been made in this past decade. Who knows what'll be possible by then? Virtual reality? The very mention of a virtual reality Hyrule puts me into rabid fangirl mode. That's a pretty high expectation, though, I admit. Dare to dream. I'm very intrigued by the "TP will be the last Zelda as we know it" comment. What does that mean, exactly? The possibilities are endless.
Jack: Over the next decade, Nintendo will keep integrating the motor functions of the player into the game. Today we're just swinging the sword. Tomorrow, wearing the hat. After that: who knows?
JC: It's really hard to say where Zelda is going to be in 10 years. Zelda is a compatible game. There could be alot of themes with it and alot of different ways it can be played. I'm leaving it up to Nintendo to decide what they are going to be doing with it in 10 years.
With the release of the Revolution coming up, I'm sure we'll be playing Zelda games in a completely different style. Even Miyamoto (I think...or Aonuma) has said that Twilight Princess will be the last Zelda game of it's kind, before it begins to head down a new road. There's no telling what that means, though. Does that include different storyline, different gameplay, or whatever in 5 years, which will probably have seen the release of a few more consoles, other than the Revolution, I think we'll still be sitting down to play the latest Zelda game, and enjoying it, no matter how different it is than Ocarina of Time, or Twilight Princess for that matter.
Scott: I'd love a Virtual Hyrule, TSA... And a virtual Halo... but that's not the topic of debate. And F3, you forgot the Gorons dealing rock.
Scott: Ten years should be enough time to give us a few more games on the major console (Revolution, or whatever else may crop up in that time), and lord only knows how many for DS and things. I doubt very much that Zelda will delve into The Real Linkm of Mario, just because people will not react very kindly to "Zelda Party" released along with "Mario Part 2883" (and that's not meant to be a year). At the 30 year point of Zelda, there very well may be a shift in the gameplay mechanics. At the same time, there might not. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And although it's not exactly relating to the question, GoldenEagle mentioned something about Microsoft... a thing to note about Nintendo as compared to its competitors is that (discounting the other divisions of the companies) Nintendo is far, far more profitable than Microsoft's Xbox division and all its game companies, AND sony's version. Nintendo's not on its death bed, and I doubt it will be for many years.
Chat Moderator: Question 7: What are the benefits of moving Twilight Princess to the Revolution, keeping it on GCN-only, or having it cross-system?
TSA: Keeping it on GCN - pleasing a few core fans, but cutting off new customers. Putting it exclusively on Revolutions forces everyone to buy Rev for the game, which will convert a LOT of people to Revolution, many who just like Zelda. So keeping it on GCN = please fans. Keeping it on Rev = sales and pleasing Nintendo
Chat Moderator: so why not both?
TSA: The both system option is supposedly win/win, but it will come off as gimmicky. I am not a fan of that. XBOX360 did that with too many games at launch. 12Games that came out on XBOX360 as "suped up" versions. I want it either on GCN, or on Revolution.
Archaic Sage: I'm really against the idea of Twilight Princess being on the Revolution, alone. Nintendo have promised too many times that it's going to be on the Gamecube. Otherwise, I feel that we'd be able to trust Nintendo even less than we can at the moment; which isn't much in my opinion! Twilight Princess staing on the Gamecube is a great idea. It's not pleasing core fans, it's pleasing everyone as the old Gamecube games can still be played on the Revolution. However, having extra features for the Revolution that aren't available on the Gamecube, like dungeons and Controller features, it'll make us people typing and reading here want a Rev twice a much, as we'll want to play every feature. Thus forcing everyone to buy the Revolution. After all, we're all going to want to get the Rev at some point for some game or another, so over all, if they keep it on the GC, but have extra features, they're keeping their promises.
Captain Cornflake: Economically, it's a good decision to have it compatable on both. There's always going to be the fanboys who will suck up any new 'feature,' regardless of how gimmicky it turns out.
Jack: If TP and Rev don't debut around the holidays, then the game coming out only for Rev will hurt the former's sales. Not many will have the means just to buy a new system out of the blue for one game, unless they were already saving for it. There's a happy medium with a TP with "gimmicks" for Rev, because it can push sales for Rev without requiring the purchase of a new system. No one is turned off and it creates incentives for the new system.
Scott: At this point in the game, unless Nintendo has secretly been preparing it for a long while and just never told anyone, it would probably not be the best course of action for them to put it on the Revolution. Keeping it on Gamecube does, because of backward-compatability, essentially make it a Revolution title too, though. There will be, as has been said, "added features" for playing it on the Revolution, much like the Oracle games had for playing them on the GBA, so it wouldn't be blocking sales to Revolution owners. Because of the backward compatability, it would be fairly pointless to release it separately for the Gamecube and the Revolution, as that'd be putting two of the same game on the Revolution, and that's bad business.
Link of Hyrule: This whole question of Gamecube vs rev is really to be quite honest getting on my nerves. I lost a lot of respect for Nintendo, their news system and above all Reggie over the rumours flying around the internet and radio to do with this issue. I personally think that TP should be released on the GameCube and that they should be working their socks off on a new Rev only Zelda game and utilise its features fully for the new game... Simple as that really
Lysia: Moving TP to the Revolution will upset a lot of fans, especially after Nintendo has kept reassuring us that it will be on GC. Moving it to the Rev might boost console sales, but it might limit the number of game sales, as the fans who have put money aside for the game now have to be able to afford a new console. Also, since it was designed for the GC, changing it over to Rev-only would mean that the game isn't using the full potential of the console. Having the game playable on both consoles pleases everyone. A few little goodies in the Rev version might encourage fans to buy the Rev, but I think it should be entirely playable on GC.
MNgoldenEagle: REV- More possibilities for graphics and detail, and a unique controller format and online playability (possible). Downside is that people who had reserved it thinking it would be a GC title might be miffed that their reservation has an extra $150 price tag on it.
MNgoldenEagle: GCN- Follows through on their word, but will be automatically an outdated game that lacks the punch we're seeing in other systems. If we don't look at graphics, however, it'll still be an excellent game. Downside is less graphics, no chance for online connectivity (who uses the broadband adapter anyway?), and no innovative controller design, but overall still a great game.
MNgoldenEagle: REV+GCN- A win/win in most cases, but this would mean that REV features would be limited and the game would still not have as great of graphics as it could. Plus if the REV uses larger discs for its own games, they might have to remove content to make it all fit.
Captain Cornflake: It could always span multiple discs, MN
The Real Link: Zelda sells and having it on the Revolution would help boost the sells at first. Having is on both systems allows it to still sell on the Revolution, but would also help the Nintendo fans without the money to go and buy the Revolution. It is just a matter of what they want to do. I am sure if it is on Revolution only the people that do not buy the Revolution right away will still buy it when they do buy the Revolution.
Nathan: I think it should stay GCN. They have advertised it for GCN for too long, and you know what, thats what it should be. It was not originaly designed for the revolution and I do not want it to be so. It's a GCN game, and i hope thats the way it stays. I'de love to swing a sword, but thats "next" generation, TP is still a "this" generation game.
Dabombster:< While having it on both systems will be cool in its own way, I do believe overall that it is a gimmick. The only special difference I can think of for having it on the Rev, will be the ability to use the controller as a sword. But that way, you may end up 201caccidentally 201d whacking your siblings in the face
JC: I personally see no difference whether it's on the Revolution or GCN. I just want the game. If it's on Rev, you'll just get different controls. I'm not sure about it getting new features. Who cares what system it is on? Just take the game for what it is. It's still Zelda.
Chat Moderator: Okay, Question 8: What do you expect out of E3 in terms of Zelda?
Chat Moderator: This will be the first e3 i'm gonna be attending. I am psyched. Its already been said that there will be 3 zelda games on the show floor of e3 this year. Obviously we have Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass... we can only speculate that Revolution is the third entity, but we don't know for sure. I fully expect at the minimum another trailer and demo of Twilight Princess, and at least a trailer each for Phantom Hourglass and whatever the third entity may be. Lets hope they dont keep us in the dark
Archaic Sage: I'd hope to see a release date for Twilight Princess, and a few more videos and pieces of official art. Nothing else from Twilight Princess though. What I'd like to also see is stuff from Phantom Hourglass, some solid facts on a bit of storyline, and some official art. Maybe a demo of the game for the simple idea of playing Zelda with the stylus. I'd also like to see some information on Tingle RPG, and if it's actually going to be released, furthermore I'd also like to hear some more on Zelda Revolution. The idea of a free-hand stylus is a great idea, and Zelda could utilise it really well. However, not much else would really float my boat. I don't like to be told everything. I'd much rather some concerte storylines and characters being told rather than another: "OMFG WOT A AWSUM TRAILOR".
Captain Cornflake: Phantom Hourglass is going to draw some attention, definitely. I'm sure a lot of people are interested in that. I'm just hoping that the extra "Touchscreen Features" that get unvieled aren't crap like "Sharpen Link's sword on the touchscreen!" Of course, we're going to get standard fare, like new screenshots and trailers and the like. But I can't help but feel like there's another big thing that hasn't been announced yet.
Jack: (1) A release date for TP, and maybe PH, (2) Confirmation Tingle RPG was cancelled (because it better be!), (3) a new movie or four of TP/PH, (4) Inkling about Zelda Revolution, (5) and a few score screenshots of either.
JC: I can't tell what's going to go down at E3. I say whatever happens happens. I can only hope for so much. Any info on Zelda is good enough for me.
Link of Hyrule: From E3 I would like to see a new trailer for both Twilight Princess and also for Phantom Hourglass and also if possible a detailed map of some kind of the Twilight Princess overworld and Twilight Realm. And above all I WANT A WORLDWIDE RELEASE DATE FOR TWILIGHT PRINCESS TO BE ANNOUNCED! Is that really asking too much Ninty!?!
Lysia: I am expecting the TP release date! I'm sure there will be other TP info as well, including a demo, but it won't be the star it was last year. Instead, it will share the spotlight with Phantom Hourglass, which I'm definitely hoping for more information on. And hopefully we'll hear something about Zelda Revolution too.
MNgoldenEagle: Hmm... lots of money spent on the display. Moreso than last time, for obvious reasons. It will probably feature Phantom Hourglass and possibly Tingle RPG (are they still making that?), as well as Twilight Princess. Being the last E3 before TP's release, they'll likely have a game demo and a lot more information, which should be exciting. Possibly their last trailer release as well. I'm not too interested in the PH and TRPG games yet, as I still lack a DS, but I'm sure they'll want to focus on them quite a bit in the floor show.
Nathan: Most likely yet another TP trailer with some more demo's, as well as a influx of information on PH and potentionaly a brief mention of plans for Zelda on the revo. Also a confirmation of a TP release date and/or wether it is being held back for the revolution or not.
The Real Link: We should see more of Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass. I also hope we get release dates on both of them. I doubt we will here much if anything of a Revolution Zelda, but then again who could have predicted what happened at E3 2004?
TSA: I expect at the press conference to see a new Twilight Princess Trailer and a new Phantom Hourglass trailer/footage. I also expect see a glimpse of Zelda Revolution...even it is a teaser. At the show - TP/PH playable. At the roundtable - storyline details on TP/PH. Oh yeah, and during some point - release dates. (That's the E3 Roundtable not ours.)
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